Tom Jones made my day when I recently discovered his book, Working at the Ballpark: The Fascinating Lives of Baseball People from Peanut Vendors and Broadcasters to Players and Managers. My late father instilled in me a love of baseball. So right about now, less than a month after the World Series has ended … I’m already missing baseball. I was even more pleased when Jones agreed to this email interview. Here’s the official background on the book and its author, prior to delving into the interview:
“Working at the Ballpark is an inside look at what people in major league baseball do for a living and how they feel about their jobs by taking readers into dugouts, clubhouses, bullpens, press boxes and executive offices where fans dream of going. In the rich oral history tradition of Studs Terkel, this is an entertaining collection of 50 candid, engaging interviews with players, managers, coaches, peanut vendors, ushers, groundskeepers, clubhouse guys, executives, broadcasters, mascots, and others who work at a major league ballpark: From John Guilfoy, who sells sausages behind the Green Monster at Fenway Park, to Chris Hanson, who plays ‘Bernie Brewer’ in Milwaukee, Johnny ‘from Connecticut,’ who is a street ticket hustler, to Glove Glove shortstop Omar Vizquel, who anchors the infield at AT&T Park.
Working at the Ballpark provides fascinating and gritty details about the working lives of men and women who are passionate about baseball. These are their personal, poignant stories. In their own words.
Tom retired in 2005 after 30 years with the State of California where he worked as a legislative director in the administrations of the last five California governors. He lives in Sacramento.”
With the recent passing of Studs Terkel, it really struck a chord with me to see Jones reference Turkel. It’s nice to know there’s at least one writer out there trying to carry on Terkel’s passion for oral history.
Tim O’Shea: How long had you been thinking about writing the book?
Tom Jones: I began thinking about writing an oral history book in 2004, the year before I retired from State government. Initially, I intended to compile an updated version of Studs Terkel’s Working, to be called Working: Revisited. I corresponded for a while with a guy who taught oral history and also was a close friend of Terkel. But one evening I was browsing books at a Borders and came upon Gig—a book exactly written as I wanted to do. That ended my first book project.
Two years later while running along the American River bike trail in Sacramento while training for the 2006 Boston marathon, I thought about putting something I enjoy—baseball—into the same kind of oral history format as Terkel’s work (the marathon was four weeks away). After returning home from running, I quickly showered, and then checked the schedule for the Boston Red Sox and the Houston Astros (my flight made a stop in Houston). Both teams were playing at home during my travels.
I made a list of every baseball occupation I could think off, and sent letters describing the book proposal to the owners of the Red Sox and the Astros, and to the Boston Globe (looking for a sports columnist). The Red Sox didn’t respond to my first request (months later they did; Red Sox employees—including Johnny Pesky–are included in the book). Dan Shaughnessy of the Globe invited me to his house for an interview, and the evening of the marathon I received an e-mail invitation from the Astros to interview their people enroute back to Sacramento.
O’Shea: How did you get Nolan Ryan to write the foreword to the book?
Jones: I approached Nolan through the Triple-A team he owns: the Round Rock Express. I earlier had interviewed Ron “Papa Jack” Jackson for the book when Jackson was the hitting coach for the Red Sox. At the end of the 2006 season, Jackson’s contract was not renewed so Nolan hired him as the hitting coach for the Express (Nolan and Papa Jack are longtime friends, having played together with the Angels). In the book, I include a follow-up interview with Jackson about having worked in the big leagues and then being back in the minors. Staff at the Express knew I was having a second interview with Jackson so I asked them to put me in contact with Nolan, who didn’t hesitate to do the foreword.
O’Shea: The core of the interviews, as you write in the intro, was asking three questions (What do you do for a living?; How did you get in this line of work?; and What does the job mean to you?) Understandably every person took these questions in vastly different directions, but can you recollect one or two where you were surprised by the directions the interviews took ?
Jones: I didn’t know any of the people beforehand, and was surprised and pleased almost every time how easy it was for them to open up about their job and feelings.
One surprise I had was interviewing Todd Hutcheson, the head trainer for the San Diego Padres. His detailed description of helping pitchers Jake Peavy and Trevor Hoffman prepare for games is fascinating. Todd almost helps them to disassemble, and then reassemble, their arms between games.
O’Shea: In the interview with Pat Gillick, he expresses the opinion “the pool of players here in the United States is shrinking”. Is that a belief you heard voiced by others in your interviews?
Jones: Peter Magowan (San Francisco Giants managing general partner), Bob Boone (Washington Nationals senior director of player personnel), and Jim Fregosi (Atlanta Braves player scout) generally share the same opinion by talking about how long it takes a baseball player to make it to the major leagues after often toiling for years in the minor leagues. They say fewer than 5 percent of players drafted will ever receive a major league paycheck. Some of their comments didn’t make it into the book, but they talked about American kids playing in other sports than occurred when they were young. So, to stay competitive, major league teams increasingly look outside the United States for players.
O’Shea: After talking to someone like the Phillies’ Gillick did you walk away thinking: “I could see this fellow’s team winning the World Series in the near term?”
Jones: I interviewed Pat Gillick a few days before the 2006 trading deadline. I sensed he knew he was very good at his job, and wasn’t afraid to change the makeup of team. He believed the Phillies were good, but that some players were too comfortable in their roles and not pushing themselves enough. He traded several players within hours after we talked.
As I traveled from team to team I gained considerable appreciation for how competitive each organization wanted to be. Each game loss hurt–from the front office to the coaches and players, and from the clubhouse manager to the beer vendors and ushers. I didn’t foresee Gillick’s team winning the World Series in the near term anymore than the Red Sox, Giants, or Indians doing it. I certainly didn’t see the Tampa Bay Rays getting to the Series!
O’Shea: How upset were you when you realized you had accidentally erased your Don Zimmer interview?
Jones: Yeah. I was ticked at myself. My heart sunk.
I interviewed Don in the dugout at Tropicana Field before a game. He graciously spent as much time with me as I wanted. Afterwards, while I was hurrying to another interview I changed the batteries in my voice recorder, saw that the recorder had only a few spare minutes of unspent recording time, and then erased what I thought was a previously transcribed interviewee with someone else. Turned out I inadvertently erased the Zimmer interview. So stupid of me.
O’Shea: What larger lessons or appreciation of baseball did you take away from this project?
Jones: I’m now more impressed with how hard people in baseball work. It’s a sport, but it’s also a job. The days can be long for the players, managers, coaches, and umpires especially given their heavy travel schedules. The support crew—groundskeepers, clubhouse managers, media staff—likewise work long hours, often several hours late into the night after a game.
Similarly, the vendors, ushers, mascots, public address announcers, scoreboard operators, and other part-time employees often have long days because so many of them work two jobs—maybe as a teacher by day and a beer vendor at night. These part-time employees usually started working at a ballpark because they needed extra cash, but the book shows they usually end up as entertainers in their own way. For example, Pete Quibell, an usher with the San Francisco Giants, and Arnie Murphy, a peanut vendor with the Houston Astros, share wonderful stories about how their jobs have become personally rewarding.
O’Shea: Which team was the most helpful in granting you access and which was the most challenging?
Jones: Each team I worked with was generous with access, especially the San Francisco Giants, Houston Astros, Boston Red Sox, Pittsburgh Pirates, and the Seattle Mariners. They opened up their clubs and personnel to me.
The New York Yankees and my hometown Detroit Tigers were disappointing by not giving much access until after the season, which wasn’t helpful because my approach was to interview people at their place of work (e.g., with a catcher in a clubhouse before a game; in the stands with a beer vendor; in the press box with a broadcaster). Thus, no Yankees or Tigers are in the book.
O’Shea: Did any of the subjects (particularly the folks in the media) make the subject about you and start asking about your experiences as a legislative director?
Jones: I told each interviewee briefly about my background, but I really tried to focus on them. I don’t use any notes during the interviews (only a small voice recorder) so it’s generally easy to keep a conversation flowing and focused on the interviewee.
The media guys did say they felt a little awkward at first in being interviewed because they’re the ones usually asking questions. I felt they got a kick out of being interviewed, though, because it gave them a few minutes of being a person of interest.
Only a couple of people asked about my previous work as a legislative director in the administrations of the last five California governors. They were more interested about what it was like to work for Governor Schwarzenegger than about my job.
O’Shea: Would you like to do another book on baseball or a sequel to this one, if the opportunity presented itself?
Jones: Baseball is my favorite sport, but for now I’m not planning another book on baseball. My next book is tentatively called Risky Living: People with Tough Jobs Who Won’t Back Down. It’s a fascinating collection of candid and intimate conversations with 40 men and women who describe in gripping detail how physical risk is a familiar companion in their working lives, and how they deal with it. Included will be an astronaut, bull fighter, mixed martial arts fighter, crab fisherman, forest firefighter, drag racer, high-rise window washer, Coast Guard rescue swimmer, storm chaser, professional hockey player, stuntwoman, a federal marshal who guarded Saddam Hussein during Hussein’s final hours, and others who tackle tough jobs.
O’Shea: How did the book land at Skyhorse?
Jones: My agent, Bob Diforio, told me at the beginning of our conversation on Working at the Ballpark that Skyhorse was a new, aggressive publisher looking for sports books. Skyhorse looked at my proposal and quickly made a good offer. I almost went with another publisher but I liked that Mark Weinstein, Skyhorse’s senior editor, was eager to market the book so I went with them.
O’Shea: How long was the revision/editing process? Did you end up having to trim down some of the interviews for space considerations?
Jones: I understand three people at Skyhorse took a hack at it. They shot two edited versions back to me. We worked the final edits out in 60 days. Since the format is oral history in the tradition of Studs Terkel, we worked carefully to preserve the actual words and speaking styles of each person interviewed. This limited what Skyhorse could dump, however, for a couple of interviews the editor slashed what he felt were extraneous sentences. I agreed with most of his changes.
The original manuscript contained 51 interviews; the book contains 50. Skyhorse dropped what I thought was an interesting interview with a cleanup guy who scrapes nachos and smeared hot dogs off the floor after games at the Texas Rangers’ ballpark.
O’Shea: What was the best part about doing research for the book? Were there any funny or poignant incidents along the way that have stuck with you?
Jones: There were three “best parts.”
I loved arriving at a baseball park hours before a game started, picking up media credentials, and then moseying alone around the silent park. Whether it was in Boston, Milwaukee, Cleveland, San Diego, or the 12 other parks I visited during the 2006-07 major league seasons, I always enjoyed looking at the empty stands and well-groomed playing field, knowing that in a few hours those places would be filled with the sounds of baseball.
I loved that the people I interviewed trusted I would share their stories as they intended; in their words, not mine.
I loved learning inside details of the game, from what goes on in a major league clubhouse to hearing professional athletes and coaches talk about hitting and pitching techniques, to simply hearing about the frustrations and joys of common people talking about their working lives.
I think there are numerous interesting parts of the interviews that stick out for me. For example, I appreciated how sincerely major league umpire Fieldin Culbreth talked about the stress of his job. In his slow, southern South Carolina voice he said, “I am absolutely amazed at just how tough it is. I think people think, ‘Well, hell, it’s just a strike or a ball, what can be so tough about that? You’re talking about the best players in the world. [Randy] Johnson isn’t just throwing that thing over the plate just to be throwing it over the plate. He’s trying to make it do different things and doing it at 95 to 100 miles per hour, and I’m supposed to tell you if it’s a ball or a strike in this imaginary box out in space with this thing that’s lying on the ground. And there’s somebody in front of me and somebody to the side of me. It’s a whole lot more complex than it seems.”
I also interviewed Colleen Reilly, a public affairs assistant with the Boston Red Sox. I hadn’t planned to interview her, but she was ushered into an office to talk with me when a front office employee I had been interviewing was called away to meet with the team’s president. She was nervous about being interviewed and I hadn’t given any thought to her kind of job. To gather a few minutes to think about how to approach this interview, I suggested we move outside her office setting to find a couple of empty seats along the third baseline at Fenway Park. Feeling that afternoon’s gentle breeze passing though the stands reminded Colleen of a young boy named Jesse who was losing his sight and hearing, and was the biggest Red Sox fan in his class. On page 319 of the book, you can almost hear Colleen speak loving about Jesse. Listen: “…Jesse is this young fella from New Hampshire that I met a few years ago. Fourteen. He loved the Red Sox. He had this very quiet, humble, refreshing passion. There’s a lot of ways that people express their passion, and sometimes in someone’s quiet presence it’s even more powerful than it is in someone’s hollering, ranting, sign waving. I’m not judging that, but there is something about Jesse that inspired me. It renewed my passion for the job.
Jesse was losing his sight and his hearing and did not let that deter him from playing ball, or any other pursuits in his life. Something I loved about his company was his genuine delight in the now. He came to visit the park a couple of weeks ago with his fellow classmates, his beautiful mom and grandmother, and his terrific teacher.
So we went out to home plate, and we felt grass, dirt, and took a tour of the ballpark. We were filming it because I wanted Jesse to be on “Red Sox Stories” for two reasons: One, I wanted to honor how special he was, simply; and two, I believed in the inspiration that he would be to other people. It was glowing. It was morning—a gorgeous June summer morning. June has a feeling like no other month. The way the grass smells after it’s watered, or the guys run their laps. The thing about my presence that day was I wanted to let go of my vision—like the wind that’s moving through the park right now. It sort of kisses your skin.”
It was these kinds of honest moments with Fieldin and Colleen that make this book special to me, the same kind of power I felt when I read Studs Terkel’s books.
O’Shea: Why was it important to you to interview people with the non high profile baseball jobs, like the peanut and sausage vendors?
Jones: I remember taking my oldest daughter, Sarah, to Giants games at Candlestick. Except for Opening Day and when the Dodgers were in town, it was possible to buy cheap tickets, get into the game, and then after the first few innings find better seats closer to the playing field. We befriended a Giants usher name John (his primary job was to ring a cable car bell over the stadium speaker system each time a Giants player scored) who recognized us and always would keep his eye out for empty choice seats in the home plate area for us.
It takes about 800 people—like John–plus the 25 players on each baseball team, to produce a game for 40,000 fans. I wanted to know why people, regardless of their position in a team’s hierarchy, chose a major league baseball stadium as their place of work. That’s their job site, whether their making millions or barely getting by.
I found the people with “less glamorous” jobs to be some of more entertaining inteviews. For example, Johnny “from Connecticut” (he didn’t want to give his last name) is a ticket hustler working the streets around Fenway Park, in Boston. Johnny was a kick to listen to as he described getting into his profession and how competitive his job can be. There’s also Chris Hanson, aka “Bernie Brewer,” talking about how hot and stinky it gets inside his mascot uniform while having to deal with intoxicated fans in the late innings of a game.
These kinds of workers rarely are interviewed so they were excited to share fascinating and gritty details about their day at work.
O’Shea: Was the book well received by those that you interviewed? Anyone tough to get things out of?
Jones: Generally, the ushers, vendors, groundskeepers—those who rarely speak with the media—spoke freely and easily. The coaches usually were quickly entertaining, informative, and chatty. Front office staff tended to be guarded initially, seemingly concerned how their words might reflect on their teams; while players commonly were at first sensitive about how an interview might reflect on them personally.
I explained to each person that I wasn’t seeking controversy; rather I wanted to talk about baseball and their jobs. I wasn’t looking for a story; I was looking for their story. We talked primarily about three questions: What do you do for a living? How did you get into this line of work? What does the job mean to you? From there, we simply talked.
Since the book was released in April 2008, it has been well received by the people interviewed. They’ve told me they appreciate how honestly their words are reflected in the book.
O’Shea: Anyone that you really wanted for the book that you just couldn’t get on the same page with?
Jones: At first, I wasn’t sure how I would carry out the interviews with managers, coaches, and players because I knew they generally only give the media a few minutes of conversation—for a quick quote to a newspaper beat writer or a sound bite to a radio interviewer. I needed at least 30 minutes for my work. Most interviews lasted 60 to 90 minutes.
These interviews all were conducted either in a team’s clubhouse or dugout before a game, while they were preparing for that day’s game so sometimes it was difficult engaging a player or a manager in this kind of book. They already were on the job working, whether it was going over scouting reports, getting ready for batting practice, or maybe finishing stretching. I had to build trust immediately, or an interview wouldn’t happen.
It was difficult only a couple of times to get a lengthy interview. For example, I was told by Boston Red Sox staff that Alex Cora agreed to be interviewed. A few hours before a night game, I approached Alex as was getting dressed for batting practice. About three minutes into the interview he said, “This isn’t working for me.” I understood and appreciated his honesty because he realized that the oral history format of the book would take longer than the brief quote he might typically give to a newspaper beat reporter.
There also was third baseman Jeff Cirillo who asked teasingly what I was doing in the Milwaukee Brewers’ clubhouse, and later stopped me on his way to the field to volunteer an impromptu interview about the reason he wears a tattered T-shirt that reads “No More Stinking Tacos,” under his uniform top (it has to do with a time when he joined a team in Mexico under the assumed name of Jake Taylor—a fictional player in the movie Major League—so he could rid himself of a toe-tap habit that nearly ruined his hitting career. Cirillo and I tried to meet again—this time after he signed with the Minnesota Twins—but he was too rushed to complete the interview because he preparing for that day’s game, being interrupted by a reporter and other players, eating a sandwich, and at the same time, trying to focus on our conversation.
O’Shea: How did you do a lot of the interviews? Phone, email, in-person?
Jones: All but two interviews were held face to face, usually in clubhouses and dugouts for the managers, coaches, and players. For example, the first half of the two-part interview with Ron Jackson occurred in the summer of 2006 when he was the hitting coach for the Boston Red Sox. We sat in the stands, on the first base side, at Fenway Park. After his contract was not renewed by the Sox at the end of the season, I caught up with him the next year to talk about his new job with the Triple-A Round Rock Express. This time, we sat on metal folding chairs in a parking lot, at a minor league stadium. Boston Globe sports columnist Dan Shaughnessy invited me to his house where he gave the first interview for the book. When ticket hustler Johnny “from Connecticut” heard someone wanted to talk about his trade, he unexpectedly appeared on Brookline Avenue in Boston during the early innings of a Mets-Red Sox interleague game. While he was on the road, umpire Fieldin Culbreth agreed to meet in his hotel room to talk about calling balls and strikes. Padres’ CEO Sandy Alderson spoke on the field during batting practice at PETCO Park before a game against the Mariners. Bob Watson talked while we sat in the commissioner’s office in New York on a late Friday afternoon. And Philadelphia sports talk show host Howard Eskin took time before his afternoon show, and during commercial breaks while on the air, to describe what he does for a living.
I interviewed Bob Boone of the Washington Nationals and architect Joe Spear by phone.
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