Talking with Tim

The Outside Boy

Back in the late 1980s, when I was studying Irish Folklore in college, I distinctly remember my fascination with the subject of Irish Travellers. So when Ron Hogan tweeted about Jeanine Cummins‘ debut novel, The Outside Boy, and I found out it touched upon the life of Travellers, I was immediately interested in finding out more. Thus, this email interview. Cummins describes her debut novel in this informational video (posted above).

Tim O’Shea: How much research did you have to do about Irish Travellers before embarking on the book?

Jeanine Cummins: A lot. I already had a basic knowledge of the travelling community, just from living in Ireland, but most of my ideas about them were informed by the stereotypes that exist in the mainstream Irish culture. I didn’t actually know any travellers. So when I first began my research, I read everything I could find by, and about, travellers. And then, after tons of reading, I went to Ireland, and met lots of travellers and spoke with them about their experiences. They were fascinating people, and for the most part, very warm and welcoming.

O’Shea: In this post over at Huffington Post, you wrote that you “chose to set my story among Irish Travellers because I felt theirs was a community that was largely misrepresented”. Have you had occasion to find out what some Irish Travellers think of your effort to better represent them? Do they think you succeeded?

Cummins: Well, I hope I succeeded. I feel like I did. I’m proud of the book, and I love Christy - I think he’s a fine and loveable ambassador for the travelling community. I did send a copy of the book to one of the travellers I interviewed, a man named Martin, and I’m not surprised that I haven’t heard back from him. I’m not sure if he will even be interested in reading the book, but if he does, he will take his time over it - of the people I met, he was probably the most cautious with me. Martin wasn’t sure why I wanted to write about his community, or what, as an American, I could possibly have to say about them. But he did give me a chance, in the end, and it is my greatest wish that, if he does read the book, he will find a fair and three-dimensional portrait of a travelling boy, one that might even look familiar to him. I keep thinking that, as the travelling community evolves and becomes more literate, there will emerge a truly great writer from among them. But until that happens, I hope my book can provide a previously non-existent window into their world.

O’Shea: In the same post, you also wrote:”The best of fiction has always reached beyond gender, culture, class, and pigment.” Can you think of recent books you’ve read that you consider the best of fiction?

Cummins: So many! Sebastian Barry’s A Long, Long Way was so amazing - I’m not usually a fan of war books, and this one was set in WWI. But it really wasn’t about the war - it was about human beings and their lives, their sorrows, their joy. It’s a great example of how a book can reach beyond its trappings and really get at the humanity of a story. Middlesex was amazing, by [Jeffrey] Eugenides. The Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell. A Gate at the Stairs by Lorrie Moore. Anything by Zadie Smith, A.M. Homes, or Gabriel Garcia Marquez…

O’Shea: How and when did you realize it would be helpful to offer readers an Irish Pronunciation Guide?

Cummins: That was actually a bookseller’s idea. Catherine Weller from Sam Weller’s Bookstore in Salt Lake City really enjoyed the book, and mentioned to her sales rep that she thought a pronunciation guide would’ve been a nice addition. So I wrote one and posted it on my website. I’ve heard from a few readers that it’s a real relief, to find out how to pronounce some of those recurring Irish words and names.

O’Shea: When setting a book in the 1950s, how hard was it to stay in that time period and make sure you don’t slip in subtle nuanced aspects that prove too modern for the setting?

It was challenging, and there are one or two moments in the book when I used a word that was not common to everyday speech at that time (and readers let me know about it after the fact!). I always try to write somewhere where I have easy internet access now, because I’m constantly pausing in my writing to go online and check facts and dates, or to research the etymologies of specific words and such. Sometimes I even search for images to look at while I’m writing a scene. Like in THE OUTSIDE BOY, I remember looking up pictures of fire when I was writing certain scenes. Much to my horror, I also watched youtube videos of horses being born, before I wrote the horse-birthing scene. I don’t know how people wrote before the internet. It was probably much more work.

O’Shea: Judging by some of your tweets, you are already at work on another project. What kind of reactions do you hope to elicit from readers with tweets under the #amwriting hashtag, like this one.

Cummins: I think social networking is equal parts salvation and damnation for writers. Sites like Facebook and Twitter are fantastic, because they make me feel like I’m not completely isolated in my job, even if I’m sitting alone in my home office all day, writing. I can take little breaks and still feel like I’m connected to people in the world. But then again, it’s far too easy to get distracted and waste time. Most of the people I follow on Twitter are either writers, editors, agents, or booksellers. So it’s like my own mini-publishing world online. The #amwriting hashtag is great because it’s obviously mostly writers who use it, so it’s a great gathering place on Twitter, where writers can commiserate and support each other. When I use that hashtag, it’s more about reaching out to my fellow writers than to readers. I’ve met some really interesting people through #amwriting.

O’Shea: As a former publishing professional, do you think your work benefits in a marketing sense given that you have a better perspective on the business than most first-time novelists?

Cummins: I definitely think I’m in a lucky position. I have a lot of friends in the publishing industry in New York, and it’s a world that I really love. I think my perspective helps, in some ways, and then it’s also probably a hindrance in other ways. I might be a little more hands-on than my publisher would like me to be. I always have tons of ideas about publicity, etc, and I tend to have a better grasp on what’s realistic that someone with no publishing experience might. On the other hand, my first book was a bestseller, so my expectations are probably higher than they should be. One thing is for sure, I am VERY lucky to have my former colleagues at Penguin Group selling my book. They are the best in the business.

O’Shea: Am I correct in thinking you have no interest in writing any further memoirs? Does that preclude you doing anymore nonfiction work, given your seeming affinity for research?

Cummins: I don’t love research. I’m just terrified of getting things wrong. So what you read as my affinity in that regard is really just neuroses. But to answer your question, no I don’t think I would write another memoir, at least not right now. I may do nonfiction again some time, if the right story presented itself. I just needed a break from it, after the super-personal and difficult nature of my first book. I wanted to make things up for a while.

O’Shea: Is there anything you’d like to discuss that I did not ask you about?

Cummins: Well I always enjoy talking about pie. No, I’m kidding. Wonderful questions, thank you!